Are Humanistic Zionism, Humanistic Judaism, Humanistic Islam, or Humanistic Islamism possible?

Posted by Paul RETI on May 17, 2008 at 12:54pm in General

Whether Humanistic Zionism, Humanistic Judaism, Humanistic Islam or Humanistic Islamism are possible may be worth exploring independently of other topics because some have questioned the related terminology some of us use:

Some examples are :

1) John W. introduced the term Humanistic Zionism.
2) I refer to myself as being genetically and neurotically Jewish

Here is some background information that I trust is not controversial:

For an introduction to Humanism, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
Humanism is what many may think of as Humanistic Christianity, and simply is the deity-free version of what many refer to as the Judeo-Christian body of concepts and values (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian).

I've added some subtopics for threads. Please add your own if you want a special topic for what you want to discuss.

Tags: christian, christianity, deity, faith, humanism, islam, islamism, jew, judaism, muslim

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by mary rizzo on May 17, 2008 at 1:13pm: This is a good idea. Humanistic Judaism, Humanistic Islam and Humanistic Christianity (why didn't you mention that?) are indeed possible, as the tenets of these faiths include instructions to treat all humans with respect and consideration.

Zionism is a political construct that does not need to be even related to Judaism, as the supporters of Christian Zionism know quite well. It is an ethnic, divisional paradigm that is based upon the immigration of Jewish people to the land that was in ancient times considered as Israel and in modern times, was the home of the people who consider themselves Palestinians. In order to fulfil this construct, the removal of the indigenous people is required, and if they cannot all be removed, they will be second-class citizens and a minority in their own homeland. How that can be considered Humanist is beyond me.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on May 17, 2008 at 1:49pm: I left out Christianity really mainly because the subject line was getting too long. :-)

I also think that the word Humanism alone describes what many may think of as Humanistic Christianity. I see Humanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism) simply as the deity-free version of what many refer to as the Judeo-Christian body of concepts and values (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian).; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by mary rizzo on May 17, 2008 at 2:01pm: Thanks for the link, and indeed Zionism and Humanism are in contrast, if we use the definition you provided:
Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of the human condition, suggesting that solutions to human social and cultural problems cannot be parochial.

Since Zionism is interested in the affirmation of a Jewish State in Palestine and that this will become the core of Jewish identity, it does propose a solution to its own problem (parochial), but rejects a solution that is based on the human condition itself due to its focus.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on May 17, 2008 at 3:14pm: I've responded to this below. I hope you don't mind. :-)

I just wanted to try to structure the discussions.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mick on May 18, 2008 at 6:56am: Mary, two issues. The first is that clearly Zionism did not require the removal of people given both the fact that 20% of Israeli society is Arab, given the place the Arab population has in Israel's Declaration of Independence (you have read the Declaration, haven't you?), and the fact that one of Israel's two official languages is Arabic. How can anybody who has read that declaration see anything but Humanism? So again, have you read it, and what did you see it to be saying?

My second issue is with your abuse of the word "indigenous" which is defined as "originating where it is found" and is a matter of "geographic origin" as for the word "native". The "geographic origin" of all Arabs is the Arabian Peninsula, the "geographic origin" of Jews is Palestine (or Judea/Samaria). "Indigenous" can only be accurately used for Jews as they are native to Palestine. "Palestinians" are people who have called the area "home" for varying periods of time, some long, some short ... few longer than a couple of centuries if my research is correct, but that's neither here nor there. They are anything but "indigenous".

What is important is that there was no "removal of people" inherent in Zionism, and even the extremely right-wing Jabotinski (ideologically today's Likud) was committed to sharing with the Arab population.

The only thing you got right is that "Zionism is a political construct" ... it is a construct intrinsic to Judaism and has been for all of the thousands of years that Jews have considered themselves in "Exile", starting with the prophet Jeremiah's "If I forget thee O Jerusalem may my right hand lose its skill and my tongue cleave to my palate" that has been repeated in daily prayers since. So whilst Zionism doesn't need Judaism, it does need Jews, and Judaism does need it, therefore, contrary to your claim, it does "need to be related to Judaism".; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on May 17, 2008 at 2:44pm: Is Secular Judaism possible?

Discuss...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on May 17, 2008 at 3:24pm: There some information about one attempt to formalise Secular Judaism at the website of The Society for Humanistic Judaism (http://www.shj.org/); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on May 17, 2008 at 4:07pm: Other terms used for (deity-free) SecularJudaism are Humanistic Judaism and Secular Humanistic Judaism .; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on May 17, 2008 at 3:42pm: I think yes. I think that I am one such person. The synagogue I don't go to is orthodox. It is nearby. I feel that I am a member of that Jewish community.

I see myself as an agnostic, who is genetically and neurotically Jewish.

WHY?

Agnostic because I have no faith in a deity and I think that for most people G-d is just their name for what they don't know. I'd like to know. But I accept that I don't and will never know everything I want to know.

Genetically because my mother was Jew. So was my father, but the tradition and culture does not require that.

Neurotically because that was the environment in which I grew up, the stories I heard, the culture I learned, the values I acquired... The tribe/group to which I feel I belong and which accepts me as a member, the tribe of my ancestors, the sacred memory of the hundreds of near relatives I lost in the Shoah... And many other rational and irrational reasons...; ▶ Reply to This