Are all anti-Zionists bigoted Jew-haters?
Not all anti-Zionists are Jew-haters! Or are they?
Whether Jew-hate drives an anti-Zionist can be difficult to assess. For more about that, see 3D Test of Anti-Semitism: Demonization, Double Standards, Delegitimization by Natan SHARANSKY at http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-sharansky-f04.htm.
I tend to agree with SHARANSKY's ideas in that article and consider his 3D Test apt.
To discuss this, we must have a brief working definition of Zionism. Here is mine:
movement aspiration of the Jewish People.)
Please also feel free to comment on or discuss my assumptions and assessments above.
So, are all anti-Zionists bigoted Jew-haters? Based upon the above, my answer is NO! What is your answer?
Whether Jew-hate drives an anti-Zionist can be difficult to assess. For more about that, see 3D Test of Anti-Semitism: Demonization, Double Standards, Delegitimization by Natan SHARANSKY at http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-sharansky-f04.htm.
I tend to agree with SHARANSKY's ideas in that article and consider his 3D Test apt.
To discuss this, we must have a brief working definition of Zionism. Here is mine:
- Zionism is the national self-determination aspiration of the Jewish People. This aspiration has always been inherent in the daily lives of Jews.
The idea of Zion has been central in Jewish history, thought and culture for well over 3000 years. During all that time, Jews have identified and have been consistently identified by others as a People of unique and common heritage and culture. Jews had and have an ongoing presence in and are linked indissolubly to the Holy Land which for Jews was and is Eretz Yisrael, the traditional Land of Israel with Jerusalem as its capital.
Please also feel free to comment on or discuss my assumptions and assessments above.
So, are all anti-Zionists bigoted Jew-haters? Based upon the above, my answer is NO! What is your answer?
Tags: anti-semitism, bigotry, israel, jew-hate, palestine, peace
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hallan on -
The only proof is that they're both deceptive and dangerous. I'm not going to delve into the parallels between Mossad and MEMRI. The fact that both organizations are very secretive is enough to induce that they're attached at the hip. And MEMRI is run by Israel’s former counter-terrorism advisor-that alone speaks volumes about what kind of organization it is. You can't even find where they're located, and the whole "we don't want to get blown up" argument just doesn't fly. They are Mossad. That is indisputable and only willful ignorance can drive someone to say otherwise. If you're able to draw the conclusion that Iran is fighting a proxy war through Hamas and Hezbollah without a suffecient paper trail, I can easily do the same in regards to Mossad and MEMRI. Except the facts support my assertion more.
My definition of a collectivist is a person whose identity is very much anchored to a "collective". An individualist is the polar opposite of this.
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Permalink Reply by Elaine Friedland on
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Hallan,
There is nothing secretive about Memri. Your argument is not one of proof, just your own hatred Memri. If you go to their site you find the information about where they are located:
P.O. Box 27837
Washington, DC 20038-7837
Phone: (202) 955-9070
Fax: (202) 955-9077
For more address information, since they have a listed telephone number:
Middle East Media Research Inc
1819 L St NW, Ste 500
Washington, DC 20036-3807
(202) 955-9070
If you lived in Washington you could call them and visit them. So whoever told you that they are secretive was lying to you.
It appears that your identity is anchored in a political ideological collective.
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Permalink Reply by Hallan on
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No one told me anything. Go to their official website homepage. Their contact address is either not there or is mysteriously tucked away. I don't know what your definition of "secretive" is, but to me, this constitutes secrecy.
Why you'd defend MEMRI is beyond me. All of their selective translations only serve two purposes: make Arabs look bad AND further Israel's political agenda. If I indeed hate MEMRI, I have every reason to. And if you love or at least hold MEMRI in high regard then it's probably likely that you enjoy seeing Arabs being misrepresented in such a malign way. This is what's wrong with Zionism. Stick up for your ziobuddies even when they're as bad as their detracters say they are, but don't bat an eye when they conduct themselves in such a polarizing way. This is what makes Zionism a dangerous mindset.
My identity, however, is not anchored to a collective. Someone defending MEMRI really shouldn't talk. They're the most devious group of propagandists. Ah, but they're Zionists so that doesn't bother you.
I see, carry on, Elaine.
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Permalink Reply by MKE on -
Their contact address is either not there or is mysteriously tucked away.
Yup, mysteriously tucked away in the "About Us" section of the website.
Hallan, add me to the list of people who find your comments here extremely offensive.
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Permalink Reply by Hallan on
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MEMRI only has a PO box address. There's no walk-in adress for their various locations. They want you mail them, but not visit them. That's secrecy. That second address Elaine got is totally random and the public isn't aware of it. You can't find it online. I'm not sure if she works for them, or if she's one of their subscribers.
Find me offensive all you want. If your identity is anchored to something like a religion or ethnicity/nationality, then anything said about that religion or ethnicity/nationality would offend you. Even if what is being said is correct.
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Permalink Reply by Mick on -
Assume you're right and MEMRI is Mossad ... if the translations are accurate (they are easily checked as the recorded clips are presented alongside the translations), and they haven't been challenged to date, who cares? It's a bit of a red herring that you clearly can't prove, nor is it particularly relevant. MEMRI translations of Arabic articles and clips have been wholly accurate.
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Hallin,
Any organization listed in the telephone book is a public organization. despite the propaganda you read/hear from your own political organization.
If you were open minded enough and started exploring the Memri site you will find out that it explores the debates going on in the Arab world and intellectuals in the Arab world who want to push their societies away from a theocratic dictatorial orientation. The organization to which you find affinity doesn't like Memri because Memri shows that the anti-Zionists are championing groups that oppress their own people.
I find that the anti-Zionists like to use repressive tactics that are very similar to the McCarthite tactics of the 1950s and your response to me reflects that attitude.
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Permalink Reply by Hallan on
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In my mind, MEMRI is Joe McCarthy, and the Arabs in the diaspora are the ones being witchhunted. Many Zionists are hellbent on manufacturing this clash of civilizations that isn't there. 9/11 helped their cause, and MEMRI relies on those type of headlines that make Arabs look intolerant and extremist to further Israel's agenda of making themselves look better than the Arabs all costs. Their goal is for people to pity or dislike Arabs, and ultimately, empathize for Israel.
Why don't they report on the Israeli media that we're so deprived of here in the states? Why are they so selective? If they indeed specialize in the Middle East then surely they'd do Hebrew translations too, right? Where are the extremist articles coming out of Israel? Israel has it's fair share of gentile-haters and nutbags that push the Greater Israel hogwash, but they don't both reporting on them. They don't want to highlight their own bigots and xenophobes.
Anyhow, MEMRI is unreliable. They've propogated too many mistranslations to even be taken seriously. I'm not going to argue with you about this any longer. You're obviously fan. MEMRI is very much akin to Nazi propaganda. Instead of hook noses just hijabs.
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Hallan,
Israeli media in English is easily available via the internet so there isn't any need to provide translations.
The political organizations you favor here support the most obscurantist and totalitarian movements in the Middle East don't want you to know the actual political outlook of these organizations, so they tell you that Memri "mistranslates."
Your use of,the "nazi analogy" is attempt at demonizing someone who doesn't agree with you and constitutes one of the criteria of Jew Hatred put forth by Paul Reti.
As for Palestinian support for Hamas in the 2005 elections, the vote in for Hamas was only 42.9%, but because of the method the electoral districts were created they obtained 56% of the seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council. http://www.elections.ps/template.aspx?id=291
So your information sources are providing you with incorrect information.
Please read this about how the Palestinian elite exploits the Palestinian refugees http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000693.htm
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Permalink Reply by Hallan on
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90% (or more) of Palestinians elected Hamas. By deligitmizing them you're only deligitimizing Palestinians.
Abbas doesn't take the suffering of his own people seriously why should I take him seriously? He's a puppet. Israel and America eat everything he says because it resonates well with their sensitivites.
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Permalink Reply by Yigal D. Kahana on -
About Hamas, it's funny.
People want to say they are the democratically elected representatives of the PA people, but then disclaim their charter saying it doesn't represent the Palestinians!
It can't be both ways.
Their charter is overtly Islamist, and anti-democratic, calling for the flag of Islam and sharia law to fly over all of Palestine (including Israel). They are part of the same Muslim Brotherhood
that has ruined Sudan (and has its hooks in Somalia) and been outlawed in Egypt.
I'm not deligitemizing them.
They've done that to themselves. That's why even most other Arab leaders hesitate to even talk to them.
Let me ask you.
You say Abbas is no good. And I think I remember you also saying you dislike Hamas.
So what's left for Israel to deal with? The fact that Hamas intimidates women into wearing the Hijab, allows the murders and beatings of Christians, threatens journalists and exercises a degree of control over the media that can't be compared with the openness of a free system,
and deny the freedom of religion - has no bearing to you on wheter they deserve to be treated as a democratic entity?
The Israeli government was also elected. Does that mean that non-Israelis have to do whatever it says?
And what does any of this have to do with the definition of anti-Zionism?
Maybe this should be another discussion?
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Permalink Reply by Yigal D. Kahana on
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Hallan,
From today's Lebanon Daily Star (an article about how unlikely they think an Israeli attack on Iran really is):
"Iran's counter-attack would "of course" include Iranian-financed Hizbullah."
Isn't that proof enough of Iran's involvement with Hezbollah?
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